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Post by Osiris on Feb 5, 2015 8:56:50 GMT -8
Just a quick update -
With the newer spell enhancements (wisstat -based), I used that opportunity to rewrite all of the mods that have been put in. Once implemented, all mods that have been put into the game will have their own server rule and will be alot quicker and easier to modify on the fly(this includes all mods, not just spell damage mods).
This is currently running on the TEST box, hopefully I will have everything ready for the production server later tonight.
Also FYI, I have always thought that things are slightly overpowered (pets), but not by much. So in the next week or so, certain things are going to start to be scaled back, just a tiny bit. The problem I can see developing is lvl 65 toons may get too powerful and start to zerg everything in the end game (maybe its inevitable) but I would like to prevent, or at least prolong that situation from happening. So any 'scale back' changes will be focused on preventing the 'end-game zerg' situation.
Perfect end result of the proposed 'scaling back' would be changing those potential 'zerg-kills' to a 'strat-kills', or at least a 'semi-strat kill'.
I'm open to suggestions and feedback
(please remember tho, that doesnt mean I will do said suggestions, but I am always open to hear any new ideas)
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Post by sunbeam on Feb 5, 2015 9:36:18 GMT -8
I agree with you. About pets for the big thing as of now.
But take for example something that happened a few days ago. Four of us attempted to do those Avatar things in Plane of Winds (whatever it is) to get to Xegony. After a few wipes (and someone swapping our the char they were playing to play a shaman), we did the first three Avatars with a shaman, mage (65), sk, and monk (neither melee nor shaman was 65).
We wiped on the final avatar and called it a night.
But:
What size group do you envision as taking on something like that (and Xegony)? 6? 4? All 65's? With what kind of gear?
Plus we have another problem, the pet thing. I think they are too powerful but I also don't think any tank we have so far could tank those Avatars (and a lot of other uber mobs along the way like Vulak, the Emperor ins Ssra, Aten, the PoP mobs.
Obviously a healer is needed, but no matter that they will have ample healing amounts, and enough mana to do the job, I don't think the melee have the hitpoints or mitigation for a single healer even to spam quick heals on them.
I guess they could be slowed (some of them), but you have to debuff first. I'm not sure what Vulak's resists are, but I have Mala and Malosinied him and never landed anything on him. Obviously my mage has fire and magic damage, but unless he is soft to disease even a shaman isn't slowing him. I guess Tash might do it, but we don't have an enchanter playing.
I think that you ought to copy one of the level 65 warriors with Time Gear over, so we can see how someone with top gear (and a warrior to boot) tanks these mobs. This is a beta, and I know you haven't finished deciding how the launch will go (char wipe or what), but I think we need to get some kind of baseline.
Right now everyone seems to be playing pet classes for the most part.
Hopefully we try something like Xegony again soon, I'd like to see if Bob can solo one of the final Avatar's adds without help. Obviously that helps greatly with the encounter, but no matter the exact way the server will work, I'd expect a 65 monk with epic and gear to handle one of those pretty easily solo.
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Post by slaughterhouse on Feb 5, 2015 12:48:49 GMT -8
Right now with 1519 int and my T5 pet focus item my pet has 98,340 hp, and I heal him for over 25,000. He hits for over 19,000 non crit, so has the potential of doing over 100,000 in one round. I can kill anything I want, and the fun has been taken out of the game at this point because there's no difficulty left for me on that character. If it's possible you might want to scale pet HP and Damage to scale with the casters INT only (like your pet would have the same HP as a 1500 stamina character if you have 1500 int, and do the same damage as a 1500 str character) but even that would be kind of OP since the mage pet classes can heal their pet and nuke ect. I feel the current state of pet classes is insanely OP compared to other classes.
That aside I'm going check out the ranger. Me, Goner, and Medi made alts last night with the rule non of us can be BST/NEC/MAG because we think that will be a lot funner to play with some challenge, just hopefully they aren't too under powered haha! Anyone is welcome to join us, we're currently at level 9, and we have another rule that we can't twink out from our main characters other than plat. If anyone wants to join us catch up to us and hit me up on Dunkey/Priestitute/Slaughterhouse! (We are RNG/ROG/SK)
Edited: Mage out for pet classes
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Post by Osiris on Feb 6, 2015 6:40:54 GMT -8
this is a good conversation - I already know where it is leading -- a re-write of how pets are mod'd.
This is a good thing, but for a stop-gap measure, I am going to nerf pets for the temporary with existing rules while the re-write happens this weekend. The pet nerf will go in tonight for sure. I had it done last night, but thought it a better idea to wait till tonight to 'copy it over to the production server'
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medi
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Post by medi on Feb 6, 2015 8:34:27 GMT -8
While we're on the topic of pets, here is what I've found about my beastlord.
After grouping with 2 mages and a necro, all with pretty comparable gear it is easy to see that the Beastlord is left in the dust.
The necro pet is hitting for 18-20k.
The mage pets are hitting for 10-16k.
The beast pet is hitting for 4-5k.
I'm only missing one rank of focus item, and with Avatar proc'd I'm sitting around 1800STR.
If you're doing an all around pet nerf keeping everything equal, the beastlord is going to be rendered basically useless when scaled equally with the other two. Personally I can solo things pretty comfortably with my pet hitting where it is right now, he by no means can one round anything like the others. And I actually need to try when pulling groups of 5-6 or else I'm dead. Same go for bosses, some I just can't do. I was thinking slow may help bridge the gap but most bosses are immune anyway. Maybe lower the mage and necro pets to around that level where the beastlord pet is currently. After two days of testing, I think that's a pretty good place for this all to land around. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by sunbeam on Feb 6, 2015 9:20:04 GMT -8
For what it is worth, the necro pet is better than the mage pet with the same int and focus item. As far as beastlords, it isn't clear from the description for this server, but I think they are based on wis, and not str. Osiris can tell you one way or another.
As for pets, I am pulling this from MQEmulator, but here are the top tier pets for pet classes (65 for mages/necros, 64 for beast):
(Note the "p" portion is for focused I think. No idea if or how that interfaces with what Osiris has implemented. Or why the Necro and Beastlord pets don't have similar entries. I had always though on live that focused pets were a different entry in the database, as opposed to having an effect applied to a base pet)
Mage (Pet/Level/Race/Class/HP/Damage/MR):
SumEarthR15 60 Elemental Warrior 4800 58-89 54
SumEarthR15p15 61 Elemental Warrior 5300 56-85 54
SumEarthR15p20 62 Elemental Warrior 5300 82-89 54
SumEarthR15p25 63 Elemental Warrior 5300 56-94 54
SumEarthR15p30 64 Elemental Warrior 5300 56-98 54
SumEarthR15p35 65 Elemental Warrior 7000 56-104 54
Necro:
skel pet 65 60 Spectre Warrior 4200 54-82 58
Beastlord:
BLpet51 60 Invalid Warrior 4200 61-90 54
However it happens, I noticed that on Vengful, with about the same int and focus items, the necro pet was a lot more formidable than the Mage pet. I guess it is the same here, though we would have to test things.
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medi
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Post by medi on Feb 6, 2015 9:47:25 GMT -8
I was told that beast modifiers ran off of STR. Makes the most sense if it was the case, seeing that when I put on STR gear my pet gains about 200 damage per 100 str added. Not to mention the amount of STR on most beast gear, and the class being melee based.
Could you clarify this please Osiris? Does it in fact run off of WIS instead of STR?
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Post by sunbeam on Feb 6, 2015 9:49:47 GMT -8
I was told that beast modifiers ran off of STR. Makes the most sense if it was the case, seeing that when I put on STR gear my pet gains about 200 damage per 100 str added. Not to mention the amount of STR on most beast gear, and the class being melee based. Could you clarify this please Osiris? Does it in fact run off of WIS instead of STR? If you see that kind of effect, then I am sure it is strength. I know on Vengful it was wis and not str, but this is not that server. Your spell damage and healing amount is still wis though right? |
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medi
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Post by medi on Feb 6, 2015 9:54:20 GMT -8
Yup. Only reason I really say it's STR based is because Avatar which is STR only, increases the pet damage. Maybe this is an illusion and I'm crazy, it's always a possibility lol.
Heals and damage seem to be WIS based, but I haven't done enough testing to confirm. I have my new ancient DD from God now, so I will test it's damage with different levels of WIS when I get home
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Post by Osiris on Feb 6, 2015 17:04:27 GMT -8
Yup. Only reason I really say it's STR based is because Avatar which is STR only, increases the pet damage. Maybe this is an illusion and I'm crazy, it's always a possibility lol. Heals and damage seem to be WIS based, but I haven't done enough testing to confirm. I have my new ancient DD from God now, so I will test it's damage with different levels of WIS when I get home pets are STR based on BL, and as Medi said heals and damage are based on WIS-based (that was the new spell damage mod). |
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Post by slaughterhouse on Feb 6, 2015 20:16:00 GMT -8
I don't think the necro pet is better than the mage pet, when I was at the same gear and focus item Pholtus my pet was doing about 3K less damage, but Osiris can tell in the code I'm sure. We should put our pets side by side with the same int and focus item Sun to test forsure. The Mage's pets also hit faster with a better pet haste buff, and their pet toys bringing them up to the 200% cap
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Post by Osiris on Feb 6, 2015 22:38:11 GMT -8
I don't think the necro pet is better than the mage pet, when I was at the same gear and focus item Pholtus my pet was doing about 3K less damage, but Osiris can tell in the code I'm sure. We should put our pets side by side with the same int and focus item Sun to test forsure. The Mage's pets also hit faster with a better pet haste buff, and their pet toys bringing them up to the 200% cap I would ask to wait till after the pet code is re-done this weekend (tomorrow) before you do this test. After the recent 'temp pet nerf' any pet comparison is not going to make sense. I'm referring to it as a 'temp pet nerf' because its truly a temporary Band-Aid while I re-do the pet mod, and the current setup is no way indicative of the eventual code. |
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Post by sunbeam on Feb 7, 2015 5:58:09 GMT -8
Ok I'm game whenever you want to test I have the Chaos Band (LDoN focus), and the Harpy Blade Focus (Minion of darkness).
I have to say though, I brought all the pet Elemental Agility, Durability, Alacrity, and Fury AA though.
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