Post by sunbeam on Feb 8, 2015 7:10:12 GMT -8
I ask this because I personally am not sure. The player base at least seems to have different ideas on what they think, at least given some of the comments I've seen.
Look, in the end I think the issue is going to be mobs that would be considered "Raid Mobs" on live. Whatever this server winds up being in the long run, I'm pretty sure any class will be able to go to PoFire and munch on yard mobs for aa.
The problem, or lack of definition, to me is Raid Mobs. I've mentioned the Avatars we tried in Xegony's plane. There are a ton of them in PoP, and a lot in Luclin and Velious. I'm not going to bore anyone with a long list of names, but when they hit for 1000 a pop, and have upwards of 500,000 hp's that gets to the point where they are clearly not soloable by any class (well pet classes can do it now in a lot of cases, but we'll see how that plays out).
Okay, should a rogue be able to solo Vulak? Ever? Is he always to be a group target? I know he was soloed on live, but it was a long time past PoP that occurred.
We have another issue here. I do not know the formulas you are using, or how they work. But in my opinion melee does not mitigate well enough to take on these heavy hitting mobs.
My mage with partial planar gear (no time gear or anything) has like 13,000 hp's. Obviously he mitigates for crap, and you would expect a melee to have more gear hp's. But a little over 20,000 is about all I expect from even a warrior with comparable gear.
Given how they mitigate that just isn't enough for these mobs, particularly when the melee in question has to tank 4 or 5 other mobs at the same time. There is no doubt that any of the healers theoretically have enough healing power to get past any encounter I can think of, but the damage spikes mean they aren't doing anything but spamming quick heals. Plus things like Complete heal are pretty useless here. Let's say a PC had 25,000 hp's. If you can fill that bucket of hp's with a lesser heal, why use Complete Heal, ever? Heck that one even leaves a lot of potential healing on the table when healing pets now. Then there is the problem of all these spam heals eventually getting aggro on the healer. Even assuming there are other players who can peel the mobs off the healer, if the spam cycle is disrupted, the tank is going down.
Which brings us to something else. Right now pets greatly outdamage melees. Even mobs from early expansions like the Avatar of War are kind of a snoozefest. My character (the mage) cannot land spells on them very easily. Actually if I Malo and Malosinia the Avatar I can land maybe 50% of my spells without a problem. Vulak, I can't do anything with that mofo.
Now, I do not have the in-depth knowledge other people that play here have, but in my experience as a mage, even debuffed I can't land dd spells on the raid mobs we are talking about as a rule. There was a wizard who played on Vengful, Kenyii, who told me once she really only used her lures on mobs like that (and that was a character that was part of a shaman/sk/wizard box crew).
Of course I want to add that on that server we never had druids or enchanters around to apply their hefty debuffs. So maybe it is possible if you have all the guys that a raid on live would have available.
Necros don't really see it that much because lifetaps are essentially not resistable.
But I'm just saying that except for things like the druid Winged Death line, or necro lifetaps you aren't getting much dps on these mobs from casters. Maybe some of them are soft to poison or disease or even cold, I dunno. But as a mage all of them seem to have mega magic and fire resist.
Like I said in general we don't have an enchanter/druid/mage or shaman/necro to apply their individual debuff lines (that druid one looks really nice to tell you the truth).
So in the end except for dealing with the adds, we take down raid mobs with melee. And given the damage melees do right now, that is going to take a long time.
Look this is a different server than Vengful. There, at the end, it was pretty obvious things were overpowered. I do not know the issues with stats going past 30 or whatever it is, but other than pets I don't think anyone is overpowered right now, at least when it comes to Raid Mobs.
And in the end that is what it comes down to here.
Look, in the end I think the issue is going to be mobs that would be considered "Raid Mobs" on live. Whatever this server winds up being in the long run, I'm pretty sure any class will be able to go to PoFire and munch on yard mobs for aa.
The problem, or lack of definition, to me is Raid Mobs. I've mentioned the Avatars we tried in Xegony's plane. There are a ton of them in PoP, and a lot in Luclin and Velious. I'm not going to bore anyone with a long list of names, but when they hit for 1000 a pop, and have upwards of 500,000 hp's that gets to the point where they are clearly not soloable by any class (well pet classes can do it now in a lot of cases, but we'll see how that plays out).
Okay, should a rogue be able to solo Vulak? Ever? Is he always to be a group target? I know he was soloed on live, but it was a long time past PoP that occurred.
We have another issue here. I do not know the formulas you are using, or how they work. But in my opinion melee does not mitigate well enough to take on these heavy hitting mobs.
My mage with partial planar gear (no time gear or anything) has like 13,000 hp's. Obviously he mitigates for crap, and you would expect a melee to have more gear hp's. But a little over 20,000 is about all I expect from even a warrior with comparable gear.
Given how they mitigate that just isn't enough for these mobs, particularly when the melee in question has to tank 4 or 5 other mobs at the same time. There is no doubt that any of the healers theoretically have enough healing power to get past any encounter I can think of, but the damage spikes mean they aren't doing anything but spamming quick heals. Plus things like Complete heal are pretty useless here. Let's say a PC had 25,000 hp's. If you can fill that bucket of hp's with a lesser heal, why use Complete Heal, ever? Heck that one even leaves a lot of potential healing on the table when healing pets now. Then there is the problem of all these spam heals eventually getting aggro on the healer. Even assuming there are other players who can peel the mobs off the healer, if the spam cycle is disrupted, the tank is going down.
Which brings us to something else. Right now pets greatly outdamage melees. Even mobs from early expansions like the Avatar of War are kind of a snoozefest. My character (the mage) cannot land spells on them very easily. Actually if I Malo and Malosinia the Avatar I can land maybe 50% of my spells without a problem. Vulak, I can't do anything with that mofo.
Now, I do not have the in-depth knowledge other people that play here have, but in my experience as a mage, even debuffed I can't land dd spells on the raid mobs we are talking about as a rule. There was a wizard who played on Vengful, Kenyii, who told me once she really only used her lures on mobs like that (and that was a character that was part of a shaman/sk/wizard box crew).
Of course I want to add that on that server we never had druids or enchanters around to apply their hefty debuffs. So maybe it is possible if you have all the guys that a raid on live would have available.
Necros don't really see it that much because lifetaps are essentially not resistable.
But I'm just saying that except for things like the druid Winged Death line, or necro lifetaps you aren't getting much dps on these mobs from casters. Maybe some of them are soft to poison or disease or even cold, I dunno. But as a mage all of them seem to have mega magic and fire resist.
Like I said in general we don't have an enchanter/druid/mage or shaman/necro to apply their individual debuff lines (that druid one looks really nice to tell you the truth).
So in the end except for dealing with the adds, we take down raid mobs with melee. And given the damage melees do right now, that is going to take a long time.
Look this is a different server than Vengful. There, at the end, it was pretty obvious things were overpowered. I do not know the issues with stats going past 30 or whatever it is, but other than pets I don't think anyone is overpowered right now, at least when it comes to Raid Mobs.
And in the end that is what it comes down to here.